Including King Moshiach himself

Comments to mentalblog.com: Daloy Meshichisten!

Tony Montana: TA wrote: "There is hardly anything that feels as unrelated as a meshichist."

Yes! You've captured the essence.

People normally think of the "unrelatedness" of meshichistin as their detachment from post-Gimmel Tammuz reality. But that's not it (and really only bothers some uptight misnagdim.) The real unrelatedness is the meshichist detachment from the human reality of interpersonal relationships. (Indeed, the reason why these misnagdim are only affronted by meshichist theology while not even noticing or being disturbed by their lack of human sensitivity is because the latter themselves are borderline autistic androids. It's like the guy with Asperger's getting furious at the sociopath for not covering his mouth when he coughs.)

It is telling that in the Rebbe's letter to SB Wolpa, this same idea is really the only point he made, that your crusade does not anticipate or respect how other people will be affected by your message.

The greatest crime, therefore, of the meshichist movement, has nothing to do with theology but rather their objectification and de-humanization of other human beings (including, and perhaps primarily, king moshiach himself.)

Tzemach Atlas: In the interest of the proverbial EMES I have to state that this objectification is but an articulation of the same phenomena found virtually in every Chabadnik, but taken to it logical extreme conclusion. Perhaps this is also the legitimate note in the complains by the androids.

Tony Montana: No, TA, there is no hint of this objection to be found in the complaints by the androids. They have Asperger's and have no instinct as to what normal human behavior or thinking really is, only what their rule books tell them.

Secondly, I'd like to address your statement that the meshichist is just a hyperbolization of the standard Chabad personality. This has a hint of truth, but not in the same way intended in your indictment.

All of us have a tendency toward all sorts of dysfunctions. Normal and dysfunctional personality traits are not opposites but rather exist within a spectrum. Obviously then, even the good, solid people have some subtle dysfunction within them that, if exaggerated, would be identical to that of a dysfunctional person. So too, meshichistism is a problem that is not just to be found within meshichistin. In this day and age, a lot of Lubavitchers unknowingly possess the same intellectual and emotional defects that pronounce themselves more obviously in the full-blown meshichist. But these defects are the products of natural human flaws, not of the ideology itself.

The only cure for this is to have a very good mashpia, to be rigorously honest with one's own self and to take criticism very seriously.

Tzemach Atlas: TM, on the subject of cult of personality, a recurring pattern in the history of mankind. One might take a position that there is an innate archetypal need to create a perfect image. One might also argue that the stripped humanity is but a byproduct off this subconscious process. But the opposite position, still resulting in the stripped humanity, and you seem to lean towards it, is that the cult is the result of conscious ideological exercise that almost always goes hand in hand with brainwashing.

I must object to the delegation of the phenomena to the 'normal human flaws'! Indeed the dehumanization of the Rebbe is part and parcel of the movement. This is the entire point of my blog and this very point is met with forceful objections from the complete range of Chabad. Those are not flaws; those are the result of merciless and mindless propaganda and indoctrination by the 'very good mashpiyim' you now assign to cure the problem.

You must understand tough that the line between conscious and subconscious needs to create an idol is the grand mystery.

Tony Montana: "This is the entire point of my blog..."

Now we've gotten down to the essence. So, I will humbly offer my thoughts.

The Rebbe-chosid relationship is not a flawed ideology, ch"v. It's holy, healthy and real. However... it is not a dynamic so easily mastered. Tzemach, you're a romantic, so let me ask you... are co-dependency, relationship addiction, sex addiction, stalking etc. the undesirable but sometimes inexorable by-products of love? Or do these dysfunctions arise rather from the fragile human psyche as it strives to attain the flawless ideal that is love?

This post is dedicated to today�s Yohrzait of my grandmother Freide Rochel bas Gite Chana and Rav Mordechai.