Mashiach primer

Bain News Service - N.Y. school - Jewish pupil, 1908

avrum-x commenting to Schochet and Berger interview. Let's summarize once and for all the different positions:

a) The Rebbe was Mashiach vadai (the real Mashiach) before 3 Tamuz and remains as such (notion of starting redemptive process, interrupted by death, and then "second coming").

b) The Rebbe will definitely be Mashiach vadai when the time comes ("first coming", but claiming it will be the Rebbe for sure).

c) Rebbe may or may not have had chezkat Mashiach (presumptive or potential Mashiach) before 3 Tamuz, but even if he had it ceased with his passing, and now it is impossible for Rebbe to be Mashiach at any future date, under all and any circumstances even when resurrected (thus neither "first" nor "second" coming).

d) Regardless whether Rebbe had or did not have chezkat mashiach before 3 Tamuz, the Rebbe may be among those resurrected before the redemption and could then be chosen by G-d to be the redeemer ("first coming").

Hard-core Meshichisten claim (a). Soft-core Meshichisten (and perhaps majority of Lubavitch) claim (b). Dr. Berger claims (c), without qualification. Rabbi Schochet claims (d), with qualification that this is merely a theoretical possibility consistent with halachah and Jewish tradition.

The problem with Dr. Berger's position is that he restricts G-d's ability to choose option (d). He has not shown in any way or manner that it is impossible or that it would contradict anything in Jewish tradition, when that is precisely what is alluded in the Talmud stating that Mashiach may be of the dead. The problem with Dr. Schochet's position is that, albeit legitimate, it is certainly not the traditional or conventional "normative" view of Mashiach in Jewish thought and history.

Dr.Berger and Dr. Schochet both agree with the obvious that the Rebbe definitely was not, nor is at present, Mashiach vadai (as this flies directly against all Halachic rules and definitions). Both reject unambiguously the notion of a "second coming". Their basic difference, then, is merely whether or not the Rebbe could still be "appointed" as Mashiach in context of the Jewish tradition of a resurrection of tzadikim prior to the beginning of the Messianic redemptive process. [Of course there are other differences as well between them, with regards to statistics, and with regards to how to deal with hard-core and/or soft-core Meshichisten. I have left out the position of the lunatic fringe of the Elokistim, at most a few handful and rejected as an idolatrous abomination not only by both Dr. Berger and Dr. Schochet but even by most of the hard-core Meshichisten, thus do not warrant any mention any more than other anti-nomian heretics.

Beyond the above, anything else is grandstanding posturing by people with personal agendas and vendettas. So let's stick to the issues.