Middle of the earth
Tzemach Atlas and his famous student Chaykl Vilner enjoy summer afternoon next to the Trakai Castle and the lakes, about 50 miles from Vilno.
Tzemach Atlas: Chaykl, where do you think is the line between respect and disrespect towards the Lubavitcher Rebbe?
Chaikl Vilner: Most Lubavitchers even in the anti Mashichist camp are conditioned to see the Rebbe as void of human attributes. So if you say that the Rebbe was in a bad mood or even in a good mood or he loved his wife Mousia with all his heart, it might be interpreted as "disrespectful".
Tzemach Atlas: So you would say than that any factual biography that treats Rebbe objectively, meaning a narrative void of emotional attachment, is disrespectful?
Chaykl Vilner: Many see the Rebbe as part of their families. Instinctively we defend our own. My aunt was telling me the other day a 50 year old story about a distant cousin who was involved with in some crime. I quickly changed the subject. I can see that he was destroying the positive image of my family and I would rather not know about it.
Tzemach Atlas: There is lot of mystery about the man, he was the most publicized Jewish leader, yet his private life is virtually sealed.
Chaykl Vilner: Yes, there is actually more in common between the Kotzker and the Lubavitcher. I think they were both extreme introverts.
Tzemach Atlas: But the style if very different, the Kotzker literally locked himself up and the Lubavitcher was involved in the outside world.
Chaykl Vilner: Yes, but we can see that even back in Leningrad people considered Mendel Schneerson as introvert compared to his brother Yisroel Aryeh Leib . For first 50 years of his life the Rebbe purposely avoided living in a Jewish community. Even when he was in Paris he lived outside of the Jewish Quarter. In 1929 when Rashag and Rayatz went to Israel he refused to go along. Even in NY his legendary seclusion in Crown Heights perhaps is the result of the introverted character.
Tzemach Atlas: Are you saying that an introverted man stood at the epicenter of the most extraverted movement in the history of Jewish people?
Chaykl Vilner: A bit of a mystery. But this might not be a contradiction. Extroverts and introverts have to function in the world so they cross into each others territory. Introverts go out to parties once in while and extraverts sometimes do sit alone doing the homework. Some of the post Jungians ventured to say that an introvert who operates in an extrovert�s territory does so with a greater intensity compared to a natural extravert.
Tzemach Atlas: Why?
Chaykl Vilner: The premise was that you are conscious about your strong side but your weak side lies submerged in the realm of subconsience. Therefore when you do breach into a �foreign territory� you discover deeper emotions and the intensity is jacked up. Incidentally this how people who are good writers fool themselves into becoming scientists. They feel rush of an unexplored when they venture into the opposite. This is also how a mathematician for whom calculation is not a big deal might feel elated when painting for example, to the point of actually selecting a wrong professional path. But we digress.
Tzemach Atlas: So what is that in relationship to the Rebbe?
Chaykl Vilner: I am saying that we assume that the Rebbe was a strong introvert that we have to say that when an outside event breached into his world like �a force of nature�, the heightened intensity brought up all the subconsience leanings with a tremendous force.
Tzemach Atlas: He was certainly a man who lived in inner seclusion. We now know the �caliber� of people who surrounded him. Mishna documents the conversations of equal giants. And here the only person who might have been close tom him was his wife. From his childhood he didn�t have a regular schooling and continued on his solitary path. Think of it, for 50 years of his life the man lived outside of the major Jewish communities by choice and then his legendary seclusion in Brooklyn.
Chaykl Vilner: And his speeches, you have a sense that the man was talking to himself. All the flowery slogans, repeated again and again in the middle of those nights. One had a sense that he was not trying to convey ideas or information but he was in the midst of a private trans. And then the dollars, so terribly impersonal. Again this is realm of mystery but wouldn�t it been more important if the Rebbe could have spend 15 minutes with 5 people on Sunday instead of 15 seconds with 5 thousand? This was such a heart breaking, awfully detached ritual.
Tzemach Atlas: I don�t think there is single person who can claim a personal relationship with the Rebbe. You see sphere of Malchus dwells in this world and when it is aloof and detached the Yesod can�t establish a connection and tragically it all stops. And as far as the Rebbe is concerned you can feel all the energy boiling like middle of the earth and it is all chained and tragically contained.
Chaykl Vilner: And yet there are thousands who think he is a part of their families.
Tzemach Atlas: An ancient contradiction perhaps.
9 of AV, 5765
Tzemach Atlas: Chaykl, where do you think is the line between respect and disrespect towards the Lubavitcher Rebbe?
Chaikl Vilner: Most Lubavitchers even in the anti Mashichist camp are conditioned to see the Rebbe as void of human attributes. So if you say that the Rebbe was in a bad mood or even in a good mood or he loved his wife Mousia with all his heart, it might be interpreted as "disrespectful".
Tzemach Atlas: So you would say than that any factual biography that treats Rebbe objectively, meaning a narrative void of emotional attachment, is disrespectful?
Chaykl Vilner: Many see the Rebbe as part of their families. Instinctively we defend our own. My aunt was telling me the other day a 50 year old story about a distant cousin who was involved with in some crime. I quickly changed the subject. I can see that he was destroying the positive image of my family and I would rather not know about it.
Tzemach Atlas: There is lot of mystery about the man, he was the most publicized Jewish leader, yet his private life is virtually sealed.
Chaykl Vilner: Yes, there is actually more in common between the Kotzker and the Lubavitcher. I think they were both extreme introverts.
Tzemach Atlas: But the style if very different, the Kotzker literally locked himself up and the Lubavitcher was involved in the outside world.
Chaykl Vilner: Yes, but we can see that even back in Leningrad people considered Mendel Schneerson as introvert compared to his brother Yisroel Aryeh Leib . For first 50 years of his life the Rebbe purposely avoided living in a Jewish community. Even when he was in Paris he lived outside of the Jewish Quarter. In 1929 when Rashag and Rayatz went to Israel he refused to go along. Even in NY his legendary seclusion in Crown Heights perhaps is the result of the introverted character.
Tzemach Atlas: Are you saying that an introverted man stood at the epicenter of the most extraverted movement in the history of Jewish people?
Chaykl Vilner: A bit of a mystery. But this might not be a contradiction. Extroverts and introverts have to function in the world so they cross into each others territory. Introverts go out to parties once in while and extraverts sometimes do sit alone doing the homework. Some of the post Jungians ventured to say that an introvert who operates in an extrovert�s territory does so with a greater intensity compared to a natural extravert.
Tzemach Atlas: Why?
Chaykl Vilner: The premise was that you are conscious about your strong side but your weak side lies submerged in the realm of subconsience. Therefore when you do breach into a �foreign territory� you discover deeper emotions and the intensity is jacked up. Incidentally this how people who are good writers fool themselves into becoming scientists. They feel rush of an unexplored when they venture into the opposite. This is also how a mathematician for whom calculation is not a big deal might feel elated when painting for example, to the point of actually selecting a wrong professional path. But we digress.
Tzemach Atlas: So what is that in relationship to the Rebbe?
Chaykl Vilner: I am saying that we assume that the Rebbe was a strong introvert that we have to say that when an outside event breached into his world like �a force of nature�, the heightened intensity brought up all the subconsience leanings with a tremendous force.
Tzemach Atlas: He was certainly a man who lived in inner seclusion. We now know the �caliber� of people who surrounded him. Mishna documents the conversations of equal giants. And here the only person who might have been close tom him was his wife. From his childhood he didn�t have a regular schooling and continued on his solitary path. Think of it, for 50 years of his life the man lived outside of the major Jewish communities by choice and then his legendary seclusion in Brooklyn.
Chaykl Vilner: And his speeches, you have a sense that the man was talking to himself. All the flowery slogans, repeated again and again in the middle of those nights. One had a sense that he was not trying to convey ideas or information but he was in the midst of a private trans. And then the dollars, so terribly impersonal. Again this is realm of mystery but wouldn�t it been more important if the Rebbe could have spend 15 minutes with 5 people on Sunday instead of 15 seconds with 5 thousand? This was such a heart breaking, awfully detached ritual.
Tzemach Atlas: I don�t think there is single person who can claim a personal relationship with the Rebbe. You see sphere of Malchus dwells in this world and when it is aloof and detached the Yesod can�t establish a connection and tragically it all stops. And as far as the Rebbe is concerned you can feel all the energy boiling like middle of the earth and it is all chained and tragically contained.
Chaykl Vilner: And yet there are thousands who think he is a part of their families.
Tzemach Atlas: An ancient contradiction perhaps.
9 of AV, 5765
posted by Tzemach Atlas at 12:40 PM
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